Lindsay posted about how nice guys need to flirt to keep themselves in the running for relationship status, rather than just friend status. I agree, but I think it is both simpler and more complicated than that.
Lindsay's point is well taken: If you are a nice guy with a lot to offer a woman, please flirt in whatever way is natural for you. Because if you don't flirt at all, the woman will put you in the friendship category because she doesn't know you are interested, or even that you might be. She will think you are great, but thinking you are not interested, she will train herself not to think of you that way. If you finally start flirting or even reveal that you are interested out of the blue one day, she might be shocked to realize she could be interested in you, too, but it could be too late if she has set you up with friends along the way and heard about your poor dating decisions and developed a relationship with you that just isn't on the path to dating.
Basically, if you are a man and you know a woman who you could ever imagine wanting to date or sleep with or have feel good about herself around you, flirt at least a little. Tease her, compliment her, just do something to maintain the male/female dynamic and create the chemistry that fuels possibility.
That's the simple part. The more complicated part is that I think the whole "nice guy" problem is fabricated by pathetic guys who are just using it as a ploy to get women who are way too nice for them.
I think the only "nice guys" who take themselves out of the relationship realm are the ones who actively self identify that way. I have dated or been interested in dating far more nice guys than any other type, but they and I viewed them simply as guys, not as Nice Guys. A guy who is himself, who is considerate, who is interested in what a woman thinks and needs, and who is able to communicate his own thoughts and emotions will generally fall into the nice guy category and also have women interested in dating him.
The problem does not lie in being nice. Some screwed up women don't like nice, but the majority of the world likes nice people. Guys who complain about women not really wanting nice guys aren't generally as nice as they like to believe they are, or else they don't have anything else going for them.
Many Nice Guys are actually guys who are interested in a particular woman, but are too insecure to develop a relationship with her in a normal way so they intentionally emasculate themselves to get close to the woman in a way designed to prevent her from thinking of them as dating material while they are attempting to develop an emotional bond and to preemptively prepare themselves for rejection at the same time. Seriously, if someone told a woman (or a man) to name some character traits that a nice person possesses, who would say neglects their own needs, develops emotional bonds to exploit if the opportunity arises, has no interests of their own, makes you feel awkward because they don't express their feelings honestly, or only has one friend and that is because they are hoping to sleep with that person? And yet those are many of the characteristics of guys who self identify as Nice Guys and then complain that the object of their obsession doesn't realize that they are soul mates.
The other kind of Nice Guy who whines about it is the kind who is actually pretty nice, but has no interests or thoughts or sense of humor or anything else to share with another human being other than his niceness. Guess what? Valets open my door, I have friends to talk to about dating drama, I enjoy going to the movies alone, and I like to have conversations about a wide range of topics that have nothing to do with me. This kind of Nice Guy will probably eventually find the right woman for him, but it won't be the dynamic woman he once dreamed of, and if he keeps up the whining he won't stay as nice as he thinks he is.
As for the truly nice guys who are just unlucky in relationships like the rest of us, I think they know it's not really because they are too nice. Yeah, your girlfriend cheated on you and you didn't deserve it, and the guy she ended up with is a drug addict who beats her. She didn't do it because you were too nice, she did it because she was an immature idiot, and she will regret it. It's just like the women who complain that they never meet any nice guys. It may be true, but it's better to be unhappy about not meeting them than to be unhappy about dating someone who isn't nice.
So, to all the nice guys: Keep being a man of integrity and developing yourself as an individual, and the right woman will eventually appreciate all that niceness, as well as all of the other awesome qualities you have to offer. And in the meantime, flirt a little bit more.
Lindsay's point is well taken: If you are a nice guy with a lot to offer a woman, please flirt in whatever way is natural for you. Because if you don't flirt at all, the woman will put you in the friendship category because she doesn't know you are interested, or even that you might be. She will think you are great, but thinking you are not interested, she will train herself not to think of you that way. If you finally start flirting or even reveal that you are interested out of the blue one day, she might be shocked to realize she could be interested in you, too, but it could be too late if she has set you up with friends along the way and heard about your poor dating decisions and developed a relationship with you that just isn't on the path to dating.
Basically, if you are a man and you know a woman who you could ever imagine wanting to date or sleep with or have feel good about herself around you, flirt at least a little. Tease her, compliment her, just do something to maintain the male/female dynamic and create the chemistry that fuels possibility.
That's the simple part. The more complicated part is that I think the whole "nice guy" problem is fabricated by pathetic guys who are just using it as a ploy to get women who are way too nice for them.
I think the only "nice guys" who take themselves out of the relationship realm are the ones who actively self identify that way. I have dated or been interested in dating far more nice guys than any other type, but they and I viewed them simply as guys, not as Nice Guys. A guy who is himself, who is considerate, who is interested in what a woman thinks and needs, and who is able to communicate his own thoughts and emotions will generally fall into the nice guy category and also have women interested in dating him.
The problem does not lie in being nice. Some screwed up women don't like nice, but the majority of the world likes nice people. Guys who complain about women not really wanting nice guys aren't generally as nice as they like to believe they are, or else they don't have anything else going for them.
Many Nice Guys are actually guys who are interested in a particular woman, but are too insecure to develop a relationship with her in a normal way so they intentionally emasculate themselves to get close to the woman in a way designed to prevent her from thinking of them as dating material while they are attempting to develop an emotional bond and to preemptively prepare themselves for rejection at the same time. Seriously, if someone told a woman (or a man) to name some character traits that a nice person possesses, who would say neglects their own needs, develops emotional bonds to exploit if the opportunity arises, has no interests of their own, makes you feel awkward because they don't express their feelings honestly, or only has one friend and that is because they are hoping to sleep with that person? And yet those are many of the characteristics of guys who self identify as Nice Guys and then complain that the object of their obsession doesn't realize that they are soul mates.
The other kind of Nice Guy who whines about it is the kind who is actually pretty nice, but has no interests or thoughts or sense of humor or anything else to share with another human being other than his niceness. Guess what? Valets open my door, I have friends to talk to about dating drama, I enjoy going to the movies alone, and I like to have conversations about a wide range of topics that have nothing to do with me. This kind of Nice Guy will probably eventually find the right woman for him, but it won't be the dynamic woman he once dreamed of, and if he keeps up the whining he won't stay as nice as he thinks he is.
As for the truly nice guys who are just unlucky in relationships like the rest of us, I think they know it's not really because they are too nice. Yeah, your girlfriend cheated on you and you didn't deserve it, and the guy she ended up with is a drug addict who beats her. She didn't do it because you were too nice, she did it because she was an immature idiot, and she will regret it. It's just like the women who complain that they never meet any nice guys. It may be true, but it's better to be unhappy about not meeting them than to be unhappy about dating someone who isn't nice.
So, to all the nice guys: Keep being a man of integrity and developing yourself as an individual, and the right woman will eventually appreciate all that niceness, as well as all of the other awesome qualities you have to offer. And in the meantime, flirt a little bit more.
Well said (and thanks for the link!). Especially the last couple of paragraphs. :) I agree with what you say, too, although I don't think we've met the same nice guys! The guys I've met are good people and usually seem confident around others, but are insecure with women in general or with me in particular. I'm not sure which. It's like they're afraid to offend me by having a difference of opinion, or even by kissing me! I don't want a player, but I DO want someone who knows who they are and what they want, and aren't afraid to go for it. I don't think that's too much to ask... is it? It's got to be out there somewhere.
Posted by: Lindsay | May 28, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Guys just need to know that something as simple as looking a beautiful woman in the eye...or letting a glance linger for just a second makes many a woman look differently at you...that is how I got Claire!!!
And I will not be removing any posts about the Indians losing game 7...sorry. I was even rooting for my buddy Jaret Wright...how many 21 year olds get to start Game 7 of the WS?
Posted by: Bogart in P-Towne | May 30, 2008 at 03:17 PM
Very eloquently put.
Posted by: resipsacrap | Jun 03, 2008 at 11:26 AM